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Author Topic: A sincere wish for Medieval ladies' headwear meshes  (Read 27248 times)
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Almighty Hat
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« on: April 11, 2010, 04:25:13 AM »

A sincere wish for Medieval ladies' headwear meshes

I wish I wish I wish-- I wish for something that will fill an annoying gap in Sims 2 period hair meshes.  

A married lady in Medieval times was not likely to leave her head uncovered, her hair loose, but there aren't very many headdress meshes available-- I know of one flawed conical hennin by Rose and one heart-shaped hennin from Midsimmer Night's Dream on MTS with a veil so stiff that it will stab your Lady in Waiting right in the back.  We did just get a rather charming reticulated caul over on MTS, but it's only really useful for high-class ladies.  Now, granted, Medieval hats are an acquired taste-- for ages, I didn't like anything but heart-shaped hennins (thanks to Disney's Robin Hood), conical hennins, and reticulated cauls (or rather the cute little Venitian caps that go with them).

I'd like to direct the attention of the meshers out there to Kat's Hats, a meticulously researched reproduction haberdashery, because it's awesome for examples.  (I can't use her photos because she doesn't allow that.)

ANY of those hats as hair meshes or accessories would thrill me to pieces, but I have two particular favorites:



The tressour crispinette, which works for all classes depending on ornamentation, and by use of alpha editing, could easily become a regular crispinette.

Veils, too, should be alpha editable, so they can be sheer for your delicate young lady or solid for your steady old nursie.  One should fall from the back, the other wrap around the front, under the chin and falling to the bustline.  Top row, center, here has a mesh very like how the veil should look against the chin; I don't know if it's possible to get it any closer than that without cutting through the face.  The hair portion of the hair could possibly be based on the base game 'hairpoofs' mesh-- the poofs themselves would need to be lowered on the head and turned into oval or round-ish domes rather than buns, but it's got a good center part, and that's important to the style.



The torque or toque, another hat worn by all classes.  I actually think this one might be reasonably low poly despite being rounded-- the hat should be flat on top, with a veil over it like a tablecloth partly slipped off.There seem to be several ways to attach a veil underneath, but it does need to come up to the chin, and come down to the collarbone at least. Again, the veils should be alpha-editable; a sheer silk veil is comely on the queen while a solid white one is more appropriate for the baker's wife.

Hair seems to show under the back of the head; the base game low bun mesh is probably an okay place to start.  Possibly, this one could work as an accessory to fit OVER hairstyles like the base game low bun, but I do not know how or even if that would work.  EDIT: And the Bon Voyage bellboy cap is almost the right shape for the toque itself, it'd just need to be flared a bit and set on the head straight instead of jaunty.

Ideally both meshes should work for teen, young adult, adult, and elder; I've seen toques on young girls but not crispinettes, and these are not the kinds of hats you can keep on a toddler.  (No, they wouldn't have enough hair to fill crispinettes, but false hair was used a lot anyway.)  I wouldn't have a problem if they were only availble for adults, young adults, and elders, though.  The most important thing, really, is that the veils should bend with the sim-- stick to the back and chest and bend at the neck.  Plenty of hair does this, but I don't know what makes it do that.  Bone assignments?  Animation?  Something, and whatever it is is infinitely preferable to playing SSX on your crystal ball computer and having the veil of your heart-shaped hennin slice right through your dainty neck.

I do know that requesting hair meshes is an insane long shot, but I honestly think that those two headdresses should be fairly simple-- the base shapes are solid, though I don't know how hard it would be to rig it so the veils hang instead of stab.  Maybe there's someone out there who's used to tweaking existing meshes who'd like to take a bash at this?

Medieval Simmers would probably fall at your feet in gratitude for proper headdress meshes and promptly produce a million recolors (although maybe not until Pooklet's new actions come out)-- I know I would.  I'm not even that picky about which headwear happens-- like I said, I picked out the tressour crispinette and toque as the most versatile examples, but if you think the templars would be easier to start with or that a chaperon or jeweled coif or Flemish hood looks like more fun to make, knock yourself out!  I can even find you links to other sites with more headwear options.  Two of the three options Medieval players have for headdresses are old and kinda funky.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 04:48:19 AM by Almighty Hat » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 06:53:57 AM »

I am willing to take a look at this but I make no promises on success as I'm not the most experienced hair mesher out there. I've got some ideas on how to handle the crispinette though. But as with all hairs, I'd need to try it in Milkshape before I can be sure. Sometimes what I think is easy beforehand turns out to not be that simple. However, it looks like it might be fun to give it a go. I love themed game things.

On that note, do you have links to the existing headdresses with flaws? Are these major flaws or minor, possibly fixable, ones? Reassigning the bones in the existing headdress so it no longer stabs sims in the neck should not take too long (barring any freaky circumstances).
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 01:52:26 PM by Fantasyrogue » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 07:01:02 AM »

Reassigning the bones in the existing headdress so it no longer stabs sims in the neck should not take too long (barring any freaky circumstances).

I know for certain that that isn't terribly difficult--it's a little tedious to get the bone assignments right, but since you can check simple animations like that within Milkshape itself it's a lot less tedious than it could be. The NL female vampire hair (or my Elven hair I based off of the same mesh) is a good place to look at proper long hair bone assignments. No fancy animations, but they will not stab a sim through any body parts. *g*
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 07:04:44 AM »

Oh I know, I've reanimated hairs before (that makes me sound like some kind of hair necromancer). The freaky circumstances disclaimer is more for those rare hairs you get into Milkshape and wonder what kind of things the creator was on when they made it Wink I've seen some unusual things and the obsessive perfectionist half of me insists on then fixing the entire damn thing (unless it is a hopeless case). That usually means I take way longer than I should Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 07:42:10 AM »

I would love you forever for even giving it a shot.  I could make these things in real life, but when it comes to making them in pixels and polys I am at the mercy of people more savvy than me.  Thank you so much even for offering!

Here is the Midsimmer 'horned hat,' something I think is a take on a heart-shaped hennin or maybe an attor de gibet.  It might even be loosely based on something like the coronet templars on the Kat's Hats site-- the only one shown here without a veil.  The biggest flaw is the stiff veil, but it's also just... weirdly constructed, like someone made a chaperon out of clay and then stretched it up at the sides.

Rose's hennin is under Accessories, page ten, and I have no idea if that veil is stabby or not, because I can't bring myself to download a hennin that isn't actually a cone-shape, which is the biggest flaw in a nutshell.  Or it's a cone, but it's got an extra flap at the back.  It's a melty cone.  How do you screw up a cone that bad?  (It also probably flashes blue.)  Oh, and fair warning, Rose's site is running s-l-o-w this morning.  Really, if Rose's hennin were a proper cone (and the veil stayed pointing down no matter what the head did, but I dunno if that's possible on an accessory), I'd use the heck out of it.
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 07:51:59 AM »

Oh I know, I've reanimated hairs before (that makes me sound like some kind of hair necromancer).

Okay! Just making sure to spread the knowhow, just in case. Heheh, hair necromancer. Grin

The freaky circumstances disclaimer is more for those rare hairs you get into Milkshape and wonder what kind of things the creator was on when they made it Wink I've seen some unusual things and the obsessive perfectionist half of me insists on then fixing the entire damn thing (unless it is a hopeless case). That usually means I take way longer than I should Tongue

And this is why I've made myself mostly avoid hair meshing.

Ahem. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled request thread...  Undecided
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 05:39:15 PM »

Quote
How do you screw up a cone that bad?

This is Rose. The same Rose that shoved a torso into an oddly angled horse and called it a centaur without attaching the two parts. Perhaps she was going for something.. artistic? I don't even know.

Anyway, I've started working on this and I thought a bit of update to might be appreciated. I've decided to mesh a hair first and try to put a crispinette over it as an accessory, that would make it the most versatile as the hair can then be worn with or without and one would be able to mix and match more than with it stuck to hair.



This is what I have right now hair-wise. I'm not happy with the braids, the texture is bothering me. I stole one of Raon's for it but it looks flat next to the pooklet textures. I'll work something out, hopefully. Hair texturing, blah.

I'm going to try to apply your idea of making the crispinette itself alpha editable. It'll depend a bit on how badly the polycounts get out of hand on it. I expect all of this will take me a while but I am working on it Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 05:45:12 PM »

That hair is looking good already Cheesy *waits*
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 05:58:15 PM »

Fantasyrogue, I have Nouk textures (including a braided one) in my PC, they look really good next to Pooklet's, do you want them?

The mesh looks pretty good by the way.
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 06:06:15 PM »

Fantasyrogue, I have Nouk textures (including a braided one) in my PC, they look really good next to Pooklet's, do you want them?

The mesh looks pretty good by the way.

That depends on what it looks like, considering the way the braid is mapped. Thank you for the offer, if you wouldn't mind sharing I can always take a look at them Smiley

And thank you guys, I'll try not to take forever on this thing.  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 06:19:24 PM »

Here you have them, maybe you'll find something useful Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 06:55:46 PM »

Fantasyrogue, regardless of how the whole thing turns out in the end?  I want that hair.  On the hair itself the only comment I have is that there's a hole in the middle that looks a little odd, like the braid should be wound tighter.  Anyway, it's a wonderful simple hairstyle and there aren't nearly enough like it, especially with a proper center part and without bangs.

I really like the thickness of the braids, too-- they don't look impossibly thick.  Which brings me to something about the crispinettes.  On some of them, you would need to have impossibly thick hair to fill the cauls (the meshes on the sides), but it was pretty much understood that everyone would be stuffing those with false hair (human hair someone had sold, horsehair, wool, even silk) dyed to match their own hair.  What I think happened, and what I see on Isabella up there, is that when the outer rim of the crispinette was covered with a braid, it was one of the wearer's braids looped around the edge.  I don't know if that ups the poly count (round bits) or lowers it (less braid showing), but in the end, as long as it looks good, I am a happy camper.

Otherwise... generally, I am all 'eeee something is happening yay!'  I seriously didn't expect any kind of progress so fast!  Thank you!
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 09:08:33 AM »

And I'm done, finally. Sorry it took a while.



The hair, child to elder, polycount: 5207, all of pooklet's old colours (natural and unnatural), binned.

Download




The crispinette, as an accessory for teens to elders, polycount: 1844. One texture only (sorry).

Download

I also put them up on my LJ (here) with a bit more info and links to some UV maps and such.

Enjoy! Smiley
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 10:57:51 AM by shastakiss » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 09:11:14 AM »

OMG! It looks really awesome! And it is not highpoly! Thanks so much FR Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 09:16:55 AM »

Those are amazing! Have downloaded both, thank you FR Grin
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